Curse

VOD Katsumoto · Jun 18, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

OK case in point you guys want too just take it, fine... I understand that. and again I am not banned but two of my friends are. So Fine.. They went out and bought the game again. Dumb I told them but they did. Guess what Within 5 mins of them installing it, they were locked out again. So even buying another game is not sufficient for Arenanet as punishment, they are discriminating against people with NO recourse for correction. NONE. there is no way for Any of these people to rejoin the game, even buying another copy. The Bug has been FIXED and they are willing to start ALL OVER AGAIN, They Bought the game Twice and ARENANET is Still being a tight-ass. Now do you see why we are upset? This is WRONG! They should have just deleted the characters that did it, not locked out the entire accounts, AND they made it so that even if you do go buy another copy, It gets locked out as well, by your e-mail and address.

So that makes 4 cd-keys I know of at least that were purchased with good intentions, only to be defrauded by abuse of power within the system. I smell Class Action Lawsuit. If there are as many as I suspect locked out, and they also go and repurchase the game only to find they are not able to get in still...

I have resorted to putting warning stickers on boxes in our Retail store that this company will not allow you back in if you were locked out for ANY REASON, so do not buy this product again. I have canceled all orders coming to the store because I refuse to stock this product in the future.

Ah what store do you work/own?? Since im in Anchorage and within 15 minutes of every edge of this town. Ill come see your store. Dont worry Best Buy, Walmart, Comp USA, Game Stop, Fred Meyer will continue to carry it and sell it. I know you dont own these. So that leads me to believe that you are a small business. Thus trying to compete against the "big guys" is impossible if you do stupid stuff like that. You should be happy and promote the game to further enhance your sales. Even if you do not order this game for sale anymore. Your just a drop in the bucket compared to the "big guys".

Ollj · Jun 18, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

For vengenance (hi i'm new):
I prefer vengenance to Rebirth and all other res-spells.
I used it and noticed the bug myself, also knowing it was way overpowered then.
I Still kept (and keep) using vengenance no matter if its bugged or not.
I did not change to something else to exploit it, did not exploit it in competetive gameplay.
They fixed it quickly and I still use vengenance a lot.

Andy_M · Jun 18, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Hehe, a class-action lawsuit because of a computer game - only in America.....

Apologies to all other Americans out there, well apart from the cheaters obviously who frankly got what they deserved.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 19, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_M

Hehe, a class-action lawsuit because of a computer game - only in America.....

Well, we americans do fairly stupid things. Like those people who sued McDonalds because they got fat...good times

obvlexi · Jun 19, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

entrapment? communism? this child is retarded so why is anyone taking this seriously at all. original poster should look up the definition of ignorance

Numa Pompilius · Jun 19, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Goodness...

1) No, farming is not forbidden. Anet doesn't LIKE farming, because it screws up the economy (mudflation), but it's not forbidden or grounds for ban, like using cheats, hacks, bots, exploits, or shouting racial slurs are.

2) Yes, sure those who got banned can sue. They just can't win.

Would the mods please lock this thread?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 19, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Would the mods please lock this thread?

But we have to wait for more repetative arguments over an issue that has been done to death!!!!!!!

Look at all those exclamation points; now the thread has to get locked

SOT · Jun 19, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I agree with whoever it was that said "their server, their rules". I am too lazy to quote :P

When we fly over Japan to our bases we have there (united states i am saying) There are rules. We break them all the time but in the real world, that gets you real problems, domestically, internationally, blah blah blah.

Well, arenanet sold you a game in a box that although you purchased a LICENSE to play their game, you do so on a remote location, servers they OWN and maintain.

This issue is the same argument as if, for example, you were invited to a company picnic, and because the boss's wife was asleep with her pants off somewhat, you could "exploit that loophole in her clothing" and then wonder why her husband turned you into ex-employee food of the gods.

You are in their playground on your own time, not the other way around.

Xellos · Jun 19, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I have issues with them banning players for 'exploiting', just because the bar can be set as low as they want. Using Vengance when it was broken was clearly an exploit. The Essence Bond / Life Bond combo was technically bugged and thus using it was an exploit. While a situation like this is pretty extreme, their policy amounts to little more than 'we can ban you whenever we feel like it'.

Granted, they pretty much have that right anyway. I guess I'm just not comfortable with it.

Peace,
-CxE

Yeah, well on the bright side, stuff like this is what causes a companys downfall when it adds up one by one. From a stale PVP, to stupid bannings, to grinding issues,

oh how being a game company must be hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

well, if you take out the draw back of a spell, it's too good - hence the reason for the draw back in the first place. so it is an exploit, same with stacking balthazar's aura back when it was bugged.

if anet is true with there word, you're gonna see alot of good players - lulu, cross, etc - banned.

edit: you can also be banned if you've ever passed a relic through a door

Nice, more reason people quit the game. Don't worry, Holy Buddha might get banned for winning HoH with henchies someday at this rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarus

If they banned people for using the vengeance "exploit" or any of the other bugged skills they could also shut down tombs and do away with PvP cause the entire PvP community would be banned.

If the entire PvP community was banned then nobody would complain about grind and Anet would be free to raise the level cap to 5000 and suck in all those WoW players that get off on watching their experience bars fill up.

Seems like a plan to me.

They need to buy the rights for the name Diablo 3 too. Then add signature items like Windforce, Grandfather, and oh yeah, Enigma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

these exploits only happened after retail, so we testers couldnt report it. we also do report things like this, however, we also exploit them to prove how bad they're. we're testers, we're asked to exploit things, it's the only way to prove it needs fixing.

The question is, is it justifiable to continue exploiting for the sake of creating a statement? It took a whole week of exploiting just for Anet to fix Vengeance. What would've happened if only a handful of people used it and no one complained or exploited it? I believe that is what some people feel to be justified in their actions of exploiting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

Gaile, In your opinion what's more immoral, getting a bunch of skill points within a computer game without ruining anyone elses gaming experience, or terminating someone's 50 dollar account? A lot of people actually did use exploits like balth aura well over 50 times babe, but none of them were banned.

You want them to ban over 100 members from War Machine?

they didn't even win that much during tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

You missed the point. If you used the bugged skill, that happened during the normal course of play. You didn't go out of your way to exploit it numerous times . Simply using a bugged skill is one thing (I don't care who got a better position on the ladder because of it), but repeatedly crashing the game purposefully to exploit something like the XP bug is a different cup of tea

Your joking right? Try getting the statistics of vengeance used before and after the bug. When it wasn't bugged, almost no one used it because one shatter and you go poof. It's not worth it in most cases to pull off vengeance, and the cooldown makes it pathetic as a primary rez. And almost nobody has 2 rezzes since the game is setup the way it is. People intentionally rather pick a pathetic skill that has as much use as symbol of wrath in pvp, and grabbed it over restore life, rez sig, ressurect, and other such moves. Please play PVP before you assume. In the PVP community, vengeance was abuse, huge abuse. It replaced ANY form of ressurection. People made 8x /mos or mo/s just to take abuse of this. How is that not intentional?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Also, the bugged skill didn't give you thousands (possibly millions in some cases) of XP. It simply gave you a slight advantage over your opponents who didn't use it.

Slight? I'm shocked. Do you PVP?

The main thing people must realize is that the other bugs were huge as well, possibly bigger then ascenscion. The real reason why they banned those people for the ascenscion bug was because of the change itself. Let us take a look before the 50k exp occurred.

Before: Ascenscion RUNS. Getting friends/guildies to power you through to augury so that you can go from lvl 3 to 20, then go BACK and get all the skill points. This gave bonus skill points. The thing is, Anet can't possibly ban you, because missions aren't a requirement to pass, you are allowed to go through the wilderness. No one can legitimately argue that it was an exploit, rather it was a shortcut. Seeing as how Guild Wars is a game that has no high end content that is attractive, they obviously wanted to keep players from finishing so fast. They changed it to 50k exp.

After: Now, they just put all this time into the change just so guys like Sama can't get their skills so they can PVP by the end of summer without still going "damn I wish I had X skill", then all of a sudden a exploit happens! Unlike other exploits, this exploit was similar to the one they were trying to fix, only now it made it bigger. Enraged, the team decided to ban the worse exploiters to make a statement. Even if they screw it up, your not allowed to exploit.

Of course, this is just one possible perspective. Could be true or not true, but any of the Arid Sea runners banned, and they argueably have a much larger advantage then exp runs. Skills are consistant, and aren't based by luck, only time. It's still tolerable by some. Now item drops like a +20% staff wrapping? Oh ho ho, that's going to be haunting you for the rest of your guild wars life. You can only PRAY to get it, not take action. Oh ho ho.

Simply put, it doesn't matter whether Anet was right or wrong. The fact is, their making some people happy, and their making some people angry. The difference is, who are you making happy and who are you making angry. Which side is the one with leaders of the community, which side is the one that promotes your game better then the other, and which side is the one that ultimately knows whats going on. It's your choice Anet. It'd be wise to figure out which players can influence the game more outside and inside of the game.

Quote:

You are in their playground on your own time, not the other way around.

You'd be wise to know that a playground that sucks is going to be a empty playground. Even children will eventually figure out how to get out of the sandbox. If you can't look at this from a wider and more lengthy perspective, you failed at business.

hydrak · Jun 19, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Yeah, well on the bright side, stuff like this is what causes a companys downfall when it adds up one by one. From a stale PVP, to stupid bannings, to grinding issues,

oh how being a game company must be hard.

You sir are wrong. Banning a few repeated exploit abusers can only help them drawing more customers. Allowing these abusers to roam in their servers will only promote future violations from others. Comparing all the posts/responses in this thread to open your eyes.

To everyone else, I think =HT=Ingram owns www.PirateSoft.com store.

Alzbeta · Jun 19, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

Of all of these games I play, only ArenaNet bans people for their own mistakes.

A mistake is one thing, deliberately logging out of a cutscene to gather the same amount of XP again and again is something else entirely.

Xellos · Jun 19, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

You sir are wrong. Banning a few repeated exploit abusers can only help them drawing more customers. Allowing these abusers to roam in their servers will only promote future violations from others. Comparing all the posts/responses in this thread to open your eyes.

To everyone else, I think =HT=Ingram owns www.PirateSoft.com store.

Read my whole post first. Secondly, if you think business comes into it, your dead wrong. People are leaving this game because of the grind. Now your punishing them for finding ways to get out of the grind. Genius, you officially kicked the PVP community in the nuts. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of the impact your making. You might get a few more customers who care about ethics and crap, but when they finally buy the game, they will realize why people risk their accounts just to do exploits. Then they will sympathize, and join the other side. So much for business.

The only real excuse Anet can use is if alt+f4 crashes cause their servers stress, at this point is completely legitimate. Their servers being damaged is far more important then a few people getting banned, but even then, I'd consider a temporary ban. Anet has not even stated why these exploits hurt the game, can't even provide a solid case to the community in their justified actions, and expects ones that have the balls to question them to suck it up and take the kick. If your going to be community friendly, every time you do something like this, you better give a better case. You have to tell us why you think this was worth banning, you have to tell us what impact this would've had on the game, you have to tell us much more then just some crappy sentiment like "we didnt ban THAT much". Numbers don't matter, the fact that you did ban some people was a shocker. A murderer is still a murderer regardless of numbers, but if the accused can give a REAL justification to the jury, he can be admitted. Where is your alibi Anet?

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

another post made by the vocal 'minority' of the game- pve is actually like 80% of the game

Xellos · Jun 19, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

another post made by the vocal 'minority' of the game- pve is actually like 80% of the game

Stop pulling numbers out of your behind. It's sad that PVP people know more on average about PVE then PVEers.

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

look Xellos, I'm not pulling numbers out of my butt, Everybody plays pve. and a smaller percentage of that plays both pve and pvp, and even smaller percentage pays solely pvp. explain that. if anything you'd be pushing for pve improvements instead of trying to make pvp even more meaningless. "ooh what do I earn if I have everything unlocked by a push of a button?" nothing really. you just end up with a number of fame from winning random matches against random people based on luck and skill sets that just sits there and accumlate for ranking, which gives you a big beauiful deer head (by a emote) in size. IMHO pve is the main thing that keeps the interest in the whole thing itself. if it were just a pvp game, it would have been 200 mb in size, not nearly 1 gig when you installed. YOU said that pvp is stale yourself. you're just focusing on a addon actually. pvp weren't intended to be the main component, but pve were, how do you explain all the BWE, WPE and the E3 events that had a lot more of pve than pvp ? sure you had the option, but did it improve your enjoyment of the pve side all that much? I'm actually looking forward to exploring the new lands in the next chapter rather than looking forward to beating #1 ranked team that got that rank just by using Flavor of the Month builds, pretty soon it'll degenerate into whopever has that skill, and that skill will determine who wins. I enjoy pvping once in a while, but I don't take it seriously like some people do.

as for the exploit issue, I'm wholly in favor of Anet. if I were a dev, i would want people to enjoy the game that i made, and if somebody exploits a bug, it would create a unfair imbalance. there's already a imbalance in the game- have and have nots. the haves farmed the best farming zones before the nerf. and now those elite few is the richest in the game. and for the skill points, it's actually fair that you get 20k xp for 1 not increasing numbers. you can run underworld 4 or 5 times to get like 6 skill points. the 50k exploit is just too much as it can be beaten in under a minute. the underworld runs can take up to 2 hours apiece.

Xellos · Jun 19, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

look, I'm not pulling numbers out of my butt, Everybody plays pve. and a smaller percentage of that plays both pve and pvp, and even smaller percentage pays solely pvp. explain that. if anything you'd be pushing for pve improvements onstead of trying to make pvp meaningless. "ooh what do I earn if I have everything unlocked and all good stuff?" nothing really. you just end up with a number of fame from winning that just sits there and accumlate for ranking which gives you a big beauiful deer head (by a emote) in size. pve is the main thing that keeps the interest in the whole thing itself. if it were just a pvp game, it would have been 200 mb in size, not nearly 1 gig when you installed.

1. Yes you are, where's your proof. I want solid credible sites or scans. Got none? Shut up about it. Your entitled to your opinion, but making it sound like fact without even a whiff of proof other then what you see is beyond ignorant. I don't claim that PVP should rule the game based on guys like BlackAce and Ensign having more logic then 90% of the PVE community combined, so stop making bold statements without putting money in your mouth.

2. Because in order to play PVP, you need to play PVP. Ever see the last beta event? Lions Arch had 6 empty districts, while even Fort Ranik had about 60+

3. No one plays solely PVP because no one can afford to. Name one player whos on the top and uses the paladin template. There is none.

4. Pushing for pve improvements instead of making pvp useless...right...have you even read the grind threads?

5. Why should I earn my tools in PVP with luck? Sorry, but games aren't all about rewards. Winning and having fun on a competitive level playing field is enough for me. Sigils mean nothing to me.

6. Wolf Head. I gave up aiming for the tiger since tombs is boring now.

7. PVE keeps interest? You realize your in Guild Wars Gurus, not the VNboards right?

8. And what does storage space have to do with the game being a success?

I'm curious, are you another one of those players who hasn't even beaten the game yet? I always say that experience doesn't amount to wisdom, but it seems to be proving me wrong lately.

I Am A Sasquatch · Jun 19, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

this thread is way too hardcore for me

EDIT: i dont even know what the exploit was

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

1. Yes you are, where's your proof. I want solid credible sites or scans. Got none? Shut up about it. Your entitled to your opinion, but making it sound like fact without even a whiff of proof other then what you see is beyond ignorant. I don't claim that PVP should rule the game based on guys like BlackAce and Ensign having more logic then 90% of the PVE community combined, so stop making bold statements without putting money in your mouth.
I said LIKE 80%. I were guessmating the percentage. you should read more carefully
2. Because in order to play PVP, you need to play PVP. Ever see the last beta event? Lions Arch had 6 empty districts, while even Fort Ranik had about 60+
the reason why LA were empty were because people were still playing through the first 3 to 5 missions and exploring the beginning areas. 2 days aren't enough time really to get to LA without some serious playing
3. No one plays solely PVP because no one can afford to. Name one player whos on the top and uses the paladin template. There is none.
I agree so I'm not even arguing that. ,Although the pvpers could suggest how to improve pve without asking for UAS and UAR and UAI like many of the grind posts seems to do.
4. Pushing for pve improvements instead of making pvp useless...right...have you even read the grind threads?
Most grind threads sound like they want EVERTHING handed to them on a silver platter. the fact is, you need to have SOME grind to keep you interested. if not, it'd rapidly nturn into "ooh been there done that next game!"
5. Why should I earn my tools in PVP with luck? Sorry, but games aren't all about rewards. Winning and having fun on a competitive level playing field is enough for me. Sigils mean nothing to me.
that may be you, but I've seen people bragging that they have 60+ sigils on their account
6. Wolf Head. I gave up aiming for the tiger since tombs is boring now.
interesting fact- thanks for the info!
7. PVE keeps interest? You realize your in Guild Wars Gurus, not the VNboards right?
I know where I am, and I've seen many people on my friend list quit after getting all their skills and pvped their hearts out
8. And what does storage space have to do with the game being a success?
I never said anything about storage space. check your eyes.
I'm curious, are you another one of those players who hasn't even beaten the game yet? I always say that experience doesn't amount to wisdom, but it seems to be proving me wrong lately.
In fact I beat the game with my monk. I'm currrently working on my other 3 alts. I once in while play GVG with my guild. However, pve holds my interest right now because there's so many different ways to play through the game!

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am A Sasquatch

this thread is way too hardcore for me

EDIT: i dont even know what the exploit was

lol, certain few on the boards are really into the pvp side :P

and the exploit doesn't matter now anyway.

Nad · Jun 19, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Meh, if I had known about it I would have done it. Beats grinding griffons(not that you can anymore). And if I got banned from the game I probably wouldnt even be too upset, I've wasted way too much time grinding exp and unlocks, and too little time acutally PvPing.

(Yea i know I didn't have to but...who wants a monk with 13 in healing prayers)
**(And i'll be damned if im not gonna use my pve char to pvp untill they put the 20/20 healing prayers staff on a collector)